BLOG ACTION DAY: How come I do not see poverty in the Neverlands?

Wednesday, October 15, 2008

(7) Comments



There's another half an hour left to blog about poverty and to join the forces with the rest of the bloggers participating in this campaign.

Talking about poverty in the Neverlands is different. The way I see it here is dissimilar to the other countries I have lived in - Lithuania and Ireland (I suppose I could include the USA where I spent half of the year). In a nutshell, I don't see it here. Magnum photographer Geert van Kesteren says that "<...>poverty in the Netherlands is different than in the developing world. It's invisible. In my previous blog which I was writing while living in Dublin (many of the topics were focused on the binary East-West, in which I sometimes found myself trapped) a few times I posted my remarks on begging (here and here). I noted that the amount of people begging on the streets of Dublin was disgraceful, especially Ireland being (or having become) one of the most prosperous countries in the EU and the world. I questioned an idea that perhaps despite the job market offering vast opportunities (and the minimum wage being one of the highest in the EU) those people (mostly younger than 40, oftentimes male) where in the streets by choice rather than driven by the need (given the fact that the Irish social system is quite generous and quite easily fooled - an issue I addressed in my posts more than a few times).

The Neverlands is a rich country. Ha's Blog backs my statement, even though he notes that in the face of decent figures the Dutch still manage to complain.

When I say that I don't see poverty here I mean that, for instance, I don't see people begging on the streets. But here I'm reminded of the case with disabled and mentally ill people in the former Soviet Union - you didn't encounter them too much, in fact they didn't exist (they were spending the days either in hospitals or other secluded places). In this respect I am asking two questions:

1. Are the Dutch coping with poverty much better than, let's say, Ireland and the rest of the world could take that as an example?
or
2. Perhaps Geert van Kesteren is right when saying that poverty here is invisible, or shall I say hidden?

It is an open question I can not answer due the fact that I have haven't spent enough time here, besides, much of it is spend in the academic environment, which I must say, the more time I spend there the more it seems auratic and elitist (are these the features of the education by default?). That's what my next post will be about.

In the meantime I am asking - how come I do not see poverty in the Neverlands?
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7 Responses to "BLOG ACTION DAY: How come I do not see poverty in the Neverlands?"

Decora said :
October 16, 2008 at 6:04 AM
Oh it exist here alright, just not talked about or statistically not enough here to be seen as poverty. Some want to belive that it's by choice to end up on the streets. Yes, it may seem like it's a properous country, but dutch never cease to complain and take alot highly for granted.
Anonymous said :
October 19, 2008 at 10:49 PM
Helo Lina, believe me, after having been to the states, India Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, Australia, many European countries (also Eastern Europe like Romania & Ukraine) I really dare to say that the poverty in Holland is really small.

Here in Holland everyone can get a good minimal welfare if things really have fallen badly. But then again, there are so many jobs still unfulfilled (e.g. filling the stocks at Albert Heijn) that it's often a choice that Dutch don't want to work, because welfare + some black money just is too good for the effort.

The Dutch pay good income taxes, ranging from 42-58%. They do that because it's quite visible to the people that the Dutch government does invest it back into the infrastructure and the social care. And even without insurance papers, I do believe that anyone will get decent medical help.

But the question is if the Dutch can keep it like this. I think they can! Their latest action to sponsor 220 Billion euro's to back up the financial markets is huge compared with France and Germany who provide respectively 350 and 480 Billion Euro. It shows the huge sense of responsibility the Dutch have to contribute to society.
Tamar said :
November 2, 2008 at 1:11 PM
It's funny how you ask this question, being Dutch myself I never really thought about it this way. And I am not really sure about the answer - is there simply no poverty or is it hidden?

I think that compared to many developing countries The Netherlands is rich, and people, if they are in a good state of mental health, can feed themselves and warm themselves, if not by having a job or a partner (watch the gender aspect...) then by being on social security. Even if it's not that much, if you set priorities this amount of money can precisely manage to feed and warm a family.

But the thing is, that the people who are poor in the Netherlands, do not live in a developing country but in The Netherlands. And so are surrounded by a highly consumerist culture, in which you do not count if you wear the wrong clothes for example. Poverty is often not just a question of material property, but also of the symbolic value of this property, and therefore of social in- or exclusion.

An effect of this is also that many poverty problems arise from depts from bad loans taken for tv's or travels or other luxury goods. Many loan agencies also advert in a way that suggests that loaning money is an easy way for poor people to have access to those things, that mean so much in our society to get some status. In those advertisements it seems like you almost GET the money for free. You can imagine that if you are forced to pay back that rent it becomes difficult to pay for more basic stuff as well, like the rent and food.

But even if you don't have these dept problems I think it's still difficult to be poor in The Netherlands, even if you have clothes on your body and don't live on the streets.
Sonya said :
November 2, 2008 at 8:35 PM
The first thing I noticed when I moved here was that I never saw homeless people or even stray animals for that matter. I suppose it does exsist here but like you I never see it.
Tamar said :
November 3, 2008 at 12:34 AM
Yes there are homeless people, but not that many as in some European cities I've been. Also, they often dress quite nicely and just cycle around for example, asking people some money so they can go to a special place for them to overnight. If you walk though the train station late at night or early in the morning you might see some of them as well. But the municipality doesn't like that so much, so they often send them away.
Lina said :
November 3, 2008 at 11:05 PM
Well girls thanks for the comments! it is always fascinating to observe a new country and to see how local people explain the way things work here.

I must update the blog on a regular basis and get it rolling...
James said :
November 13, 2008 at 6:48 PM
I always wondered about that, too. I use to live in San Francisco and there were so many homeless people. It was crazy. I go back often to visit and it just really hits me now, after living in Amsterdam...

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